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  1. #1
    Heroes WoW Member Millicent's Avatar
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    Warlock DPS needs a rebalance

    Hello! i have noticed that warlocks are under performing DPS wise compared to every other DPS class, so i decided to start a thread about balancing warlocks (not just straight up buffing them)

    warning: any non-constructive criticism shitposting is very unwelcome, like "nah its just you that sucks" or "git gud"

    To address the very first and most important issue: numbers on main spells.
    let's take balance druids as a comparison point.
    a balance druid's starfire on t16 hits around 1.2m on a training dummy, 1.4m with wrath.
    a t18 warlock's Shadow Bolt hits 480k whereas soul fire hits 830k

    a warlock's rotation consists of:
    CoE + Corruption start
    use Haunt, shadowburn, chaos bolt whenever they're out of CD
    use immolate into conflagrate and swap immo for UA as soon as that's done
    fill with soul fire
    (Coe, Corrup, Haunt, shadowburn, chaos bolt, immolate, conflagrate, UA) 8 skills
    avg: 1.45m dps (full t18 with 3 t19 pieces)

    a balance druid's rotation consists of:
    Starfall start
    keep Insect swarm and moonfire up, press starfire once to proc solar eclipse, spam wrath during solar eclipse buff and then switch to starfire when it's over.
    (Starfall, insect swarm, moonfire, starfire, wrath) 5 skills
    avg: 1.71m dps (t14 mainset, t17 offset and an agility bow)

    being this comparison not enough, warlocks also seem to fall behind against any other DPS class (that's playing their class correctly) on the same gear, let's move over to the second issue: AoE
    (using the same druid and warlock)



    warlock's AoE spells are rain of fire and seed of corruption
    - Rain of fire hits 470k per tick, it ticks 1 time every 2 seconds. (235k dps per target)
    - Seed of corruption hits 290k per cast, it can be casted every gcd (1 second + ping to server, 1.230s for me) (235k dps per target)

    druid's AoE spells are Hurricane and Starfall
    - Starfall hits 540k per tick, it ticks 1 time per second on every target (540k dps per target)
    - Hurricane hits 75k per tick, it ticks 10 times over 3.5 seconds (214k dps per target, can be used at the same time as starfall)

    as you can see there, with starfall on cooldown warlock outdpses druid's aoe by 21k with a 4 tier difference

    please understand, balance druids are not "broken", they're performing just slightly better than other casters

    i would very much like changes to warlock spells to make them able to catch up, they already take more keypresses to play than other classes and do less dps than other classes even with 100% uptime

    changes i suggest:
    make haste affect corruption again, just not as much as before (100k haste to make corrup last 5 seconds would be balanced, used to take 76k to reach 2 seconds)
    increase rain of fire tickrate and/or increase seed of corruption damage (rain of fire scaling with haste would be ideal, reaching 1 tick every 0.8 seconds would be best)
    make filler spells (shadow bolt, incinerate, soul fire) do slightly more damage (around 15% more?)

    please share your thoughts and what would you change about warlocks, thanks for reading!
    edit: all this is for PvE, i am not sure what's warlock's current standing on pvp
    Last edited by Chippychippy; 08-18-2017 at 01:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Heroes WoW Member goldva1's Avatar
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    I'm honestly dont know where u get numbers like 430k SB and 830k SF. My full t18 warlock (1 piece t19) doing something like 385k SB and 550 k(!) with SF with buff from my pet. My imp doing more damage from his firebolt than my soulfire. Warlocks need to bring hast on corruption back atleast. (not so strong as before, atleast 50% of it) Not only because of damage on corruption which is laughable rn, but it will increase amount of Eradication procs and it will help on multitargeting with dots (our more mass aoe will suck anyways but atleast multidoting will be a good option)

  3. #3
    Heroes WoW Member beastyone09's Avatar
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    I would like to say tho, you also have to consider that not all dps classes are meant to pull high damage. Some are meant to support the others, so that they can make a greater dps. Warlocks kinda belong to that group, where they can support the raids with their Curse of Element, increasing other dps' elemental damage. They can also provide Soulstone, which in some cases can be a nice to have, or a need to have, for certain raid setups to succeed.
    And last but not least, Summoning Portal, which is also a thing that warlocks can provide to raids. (But after the item from Prince is Karazhan has been released, this isn't really a thing only warlocks can provide anymore)

    I would also like to know, since you're a spellcasting class, I'm sure you know, that spell penetration is a huge thing for you to make a great damage. For one around your tier, I would consider having about 700-800 spell penetration. And that is another thing you fail to report about with the moonkin druids that you talk about, how much spell penetration did they have?
    Your damage seem slightly low, compared to other warlocks I've met ingame, so maybe you lack of something, or maybe you compare yourself to someone who has greater gear (like more spell penetration, donor trinkets, donor weps and so).

  4. #4
    Heroes WoW Member Millicent's Avatar
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    druids:
    - 13% extra spell damage taken debuff
    - battle ress
    - heals
    - high damage

    warlocks:
    - curse of elements
    - a battle ress that works only when the person is alive

    also
    exact same spell pen on both chars, around 410 and both tested on the same training dummy, 100% sure i'm doing the correct rotation, cape enchanted with spell pen, using spell pen potion and the voter's shirt, i just don't have the event stuff

    also even on my current spell pen, out of a 800k soul fire only around 40k was resisted, so spell pen wasnt the issue i believe

    plus, i don't think a 25% difference in DPS makes up for... curse of elements alone, which is the only thing warlocks currently bring to the raid

  5. #5
    Heroes WoW Member Jantuck's Avatar
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    You still shouldn't look at warlocks as a pure dps class. When my priest has a warlock in its raid, my damage is boosted with 0,6-0,9m.

  6. #6
    Heroes WoW Member goldva1's Avatar
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    All clases have some sort of buffs for raid. Why only warlock should have a bad dps coz of his buffs?

  7. #7
    Heroes WoW Member beastyone09's Avatar
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    With 410 spell penetration, you're low, that's for sure. You'll have to remember, the server isn't made so that you can obtain the gear needed to be great in just a short period of time, at least not for all classes. That's why certain event stuff sometimes can be needed for a class to be as great as others, or just great in general.
    But by comparing yourself to a class and spec, which only provides the raid with damage and no damage boost to others, I don't really get your point. Supporters vs. heavy damage pullers, isn't a way of comparing and complaining.
    I would see this as much more sitting, if you compared it with more classes. Like how about warlock vs. rogue or warlock vs. hunter?
    You also fail to mention, which pet are you using? Warlocks overall damage is affected a lot by the pet they use, since they can deal a great damage.

    Furthermore, if you feel like this is an issue, make a poll, so that others can vote if they agree or not. Because as I see it, warlocks do not need to be boosted. I can see that Goldva1 is surprised by your numbers as well, when comparing his warlock to yours. As I see it, I might think your rotation, lack of spell penetration and maybe lack of use of pet (Don't know if this is true or not, since you've failed to mention anything about your pet).

  8. #8
    Heroes WoW Member Millicent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastyone09 View Post
    With 410 spell penetration, you're low, that's for sure. You'll have to remember, the server isn't made so that you can obtain the gear needed to be great in just a short period of time, at least not for all classes. That's why certain event stuff sometimes can be needed for a class to be as great as others, or just great in general.
    But by comparing yourself to a class and spec, which only provides the raid with damage and no damage boost to others, I don't really get your point. Supporters vs. heavy damage pullers, isn't a way of comparing and complaining.
    I would see this as much more sitting, if you compared it with more classes. Like how about warlock vs. rogue or warlock vs. hunter?
    You also fail to mention, which pet are you using? Warlocks overall damage is affected a lot by the pet they use, since they can deal a great damage.

    Furthermore, if you feel like this is an issue, make a poll, so that others can vote if they agree or not. Because as I see it, warlocks do not need to be boosted. I can see that Goldva1 is surprised by your numbers as well, when comparing his warlock to yours. As I see it, I might think your rotation, lack of spell penetration and maybe lack of use of pet (Don't know if this is true or not, since you've failed to mention anything about your pet).
    you clearly failed to read both goldava1's post and both of mine, that's why i don't wanna make a poll, people will vote before proof reading the posts.

    1- spell pen is enough, less than 10% of my damage is being resisted
    2- imp
    3- already said my rotation is minmaxed, compared it to a very good warlock which name i forgot and he tried my rotation and he ended up doing more than his current dps
    4- the class i compared warlock with also has raid utility, arguably the same as warlock if not more.

  9. #9
    Heroes WoW Member beastyone09's Avatar
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    I'm not talking about proof reading, I'm talking about making a pool, about if people feel like warlocks needs a boost or not. This is clearly your own opinion about the class and from my own experience, warlocks are more than good enough already ingame, so I would like to see how others feel about warlocks, from their experience of how much damage they do already. If the pool shows a greater amount of people wanting a boost, compared to those who doesn't, then I would go look into what that should be changed, as you are trying to suggest with this post.

    You say your spell penetration is enough, but have you tried to compare yourself to a person with what I recommend for you to have in spell penetration? Just so that you can see that difference, since you've not mentioned anything about you comparing your current level of spell penetration to someone with what would be considered required to make a decent dps.

    I'm glad you're using Imp, that is the most correct pet for a warlock in single target situations, while on AoE, I would suggegst Felguard because of it's Cleave ability.
    I'll take it, that you due to all of this, know the proper rotation and I'm not gonna make any comment on your rotation, since I'm not an expert regarding rotations for warlocks. But as I say, I've seen MANY warlocks doing more than enough damage, to not be in need of a boost, when being compared to the rest of the raid group.

    The class you compare your warlock to is moonkin druid, which isn't a supporting class. In that case, you might as well compare your warlock to a mage, but once again, these are not support class, like moonkin druid. I feel like you don't accept that warlock is a support class, and not a damage pulling class like druid, mage and deathknight. I'm sorry if I'm wrong. But you can't expect a class that is meant to support the raid, to be doing a damage on the level of the classes that are meant to pull the damage.

  10. #10
    Heroes WoW Member goldva1's Avatar
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    Supporting class? Lol. Why warlock is "support class"? What do u even mean by saying support class? Class who can buff raid or have BR? I already told: every class has some sort of buffs for raid. And its not like it really does matter in pve. Every fking class need to have similar opportunities. Dk and druid have similar debuff that increase magic damage taken on target for 13%. Why should i use CoE in this situation? Dk and boomkin have battle res. Not stone, what cant be used to res target, only to prevent dying. Real battle res. Shamans have billion buffing totems (spd, spell haste, melee haste, strenght and agility, and w/e they have idk), and they have both Blood Lust AND Heroism (!!!!). So, why warlock is support class, and boomkin is not? I dont understand it. I dont understand why paladins can do damage only if they donate haste, but this is another story, im playing warlock here. So what i have on warlock? 0 AOE, useless stats on most of warlock sets and non-sets items (like hit or crit, 0 spirit and lack of haste), hard rotation compared to other classes. Random CC can fuck my rotation and it would reduce my dps on 20-30%. And why should i listen opinion from peoples who dont even know their classes properly? They didnt even see a warlocks, coz there are something like 15 warlocks t18+ who are currently playing (its random number, i didnt even see 10 t18+ warlocks on this server), so how can they judge about this?

    P. S. And dear beastyone09. Stop acting like we have negative iq. We all (warlocks) know about what pet should we use and what rotation is optimal for now. I'm wasting about 40-60 minutes every day testing on dummy and working with my rotation. Big thanks.

    P. P. S. And stop this bullshit about support classes in pve (its pvp term) please, its really annoing.

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